Talk:Pulse: Seeking a site for the covenant
Zephyr: Car, Band, or Breeze? What the heck is a zephyr? --Tim 17:30, 25 September 2006 (UTC) ::A gentle breeze of wind - in this case probably some sort of small air elemental, judging by the later comments. --OldNick 18:57, 25 September 2006 (UTC) Nick is correct. As cleaning servants go, a small air elemental is a great choice. They make almost no sound, are nearly invisible, and out perform vacuum cleaners in an age where such things do not exist - every big, white, ominous, temple-like monument should have one. :D --James 15:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC) DEmons aMONg us I'm sure this would come up in converstation among the Magi as they discuss the day's events, so I'll post some thoughts here: # Gruffyd claims that the ward was designed to restrict humans and infernal # We know that it did keep out humans through our own experimentation # We have evidence that it did not keep out fae, both print evidence and Gruffyd's testimony # We surmise that something was trapped inside which could presumabily be only dominion or infernal, this was released when Eirlys destroyed the ward To summarize, evidence suggests that the ward did indeed effect ONLY humans and infernal Why then, was Aloysius stopped by the ward? As it is clear that he could not have been a mundane human, it seems that the only alternative is that he was a creature of infernal nature. This means that Eirlys was in constant company of an infernal power, knowingly or not. --Tim 18:59, 26 September 2006 (UTC) I am in agreement here. It definitely looks like we are faced with two potential demons here, at least. Whatever was trapped inside the ward and now is not - hopefully singular - and Aloysius. The first we should probably make an effort to hunt down and banish back to hell, or whatever it is you do with demon - cover them in salt, encase them in cold iron and throw them into the sea or whatever. The same goes with Aloysius if Eirlys is still floating about and given that she is probably demon tainted by this stage, that goes for her as well. At the least, we need to inform the Order in general that there is a infernalist wandering the land and she should be blasted on sight. Demons are extremely bad news. --Perikles 20:16, 30 September 2006 (UTC) :Longinus is in distinct disagreement. There is no evidence whatsoever that the ward was unable to bar fae except the word of Gryffud about whom we know next to nothing. The print evidence was fresh, meaning it was created after the ward was destroyed. There was no evidence of fae presence (no hoof marks that Longinus noticed) inside the ward until Eirlys broke it and entered - indeed the hoof marks could well be from her dancing. Moreover, in a fae forest Longinus would expect a ward designed to keep out annoying minor fae around a covenant. The claws marks could have been from any creature trapped inside the ward - fae, demon, human, animal even (no animal signs inside the ward either), whatever the ward affects. :To summarise, there is no evidence beyod the word of a goblin that the ward keeps out demons and not fae. What is a goblin more likely to say? 'Yeah, the magic works against fae' or 'yeah, the fae (and I) dont go there because its nasty'. --Corbonjnl 00:25, 1 October 2006 (UTC) :: I agree to a point. The above assumptions are based on the presumption that Grufydd's information is accurate. Mnemosyne for one would like some corroberation of his facts. I haven't got my books to hand right now, but I presume we could spont up some kind of Intelego Vim spell to identify the function of the now defunct ward, telling us exactly who or what it it was intended to keep in or out. :: However, we can make certain deductions, even without confirmation. If the ward has been in place for several centuries, as the physical evidence suggests, then it is extremely unlikely to merely be some normal beast somehow trapped inside. If this was simply a badger or something which got trapped inside when the ward was put into place, it would no longer be alive. Food supplies would run out and breeding stock would have depleted. The area is not large enough to sustain a population of any sized creatures totally isolated from any other creatures as either food sources or mates for such a length of time. As for humans, we know they could not pass the ward unassisted, even if the evidence of claw marks suggests some other kind of creature. We also know that magical creatures would not have been stopped by the ward, else Longinus would not have had a problem, thus this effectively leaves something Fae, Divine or Infernal. Divine seems rather unlikely - but is a possibility. Fae definitely seems the most likely, but if it transpires that the ward was in fact ineffective against Fae, then that pretty much leaves us with the Infernal. --Perikles 21:16, 1 October 2006 (UTC) :::There is no indication that the excavations, the claw marks, or the worn almost smooth scrabbling arks are recent or ancient. Thus, any human or animal that could not pass the ward without assistance and was left on the inside after/during the attack could well have been trapped inside, made some or all of the excavations and then died out leaving no other sign as you suggest. We don't know anything about magical creatures. The ward could have been designed (in part or in whole) as a continuous spell item with low penetration so that Parma Magica blocked it. Basically, the only reliable information we have is that Parma allowed both Magus and mundane to pass the ward, while without the Parma the mundane could not. We have potentially slightly unreliable evidence (Longinus considers it completely reliable) that the ward blocked fae (Aloysius). We have a very unreliable claim that the ward does not block fae and instead blocks infernal. --Corbonjnl 00:09, 2 October 2006 (UTC) :::: I find it extremely doubtful that any animal would have left claw marks which survived several centuries of exposure to time and weather. Water from rain run off should have obliterated any sign of claw marks, the attempted excavation should have collapsed at least somewhat to make it unrecognisable and vegetation should have grown over it. The fact that we can apparently identify claw marks also seems to rule out a human agency. --Perikles 16:33, 2 October 2006 (UTC) ::::: Well, it has collapsed at one end. The trench is clearly years old, but not decades old. The ground is not a uniform brown putty, but does contain harder elements which bear the traces of extremely sharp and strong claws rather well - such as wood, heavily compacted materials, soft stones, etc. A great deal of scrabbling has occurred at this location in the not too past. I don't believe the trench was visited on the first trip to the site - but if I made a mistake there, then let me know. --James 16:54, 2 October 2006 (UTC) ::::::So the trench in which the ward was burried, is significantly more recent than the destruction of the covenant? --Tim 17:38, 2 October 2006 (UTC) :::::: Careful - the trench runs along one side of the ward, and stops smoothly where it approaches too close to the ward. The latest activity in the trench occurred not terribly long ago. The destruction of the covenant occurred during the schism war. --James 09:33, 3 October 2006 (UTC) Regardless of the veracity of the goblin's claims, and that is a good point considering that he is one of the fae, Longinus was present when Eirlys performed the dance around the pillar the first time around, causing the trees to light. The tracks she would have left then, would have formed a ring about the pillar. On his return, it is pointed out that the hoof-tracks are now in great abundance, and cover a rather large area - in short, Eirlys has clearly been back, and done considerably more dancing around the pillar. The presence of the heart of her steed is the proof of the pudding, as it provides a handy arcane connection to the rest of the horse, which is readily identifiable. Mnemosyne can sense that the heart has been the subject of some potent spell, but it's traces elude his attempt to study them further. :Yes, I didn't say or mean that the tracks were only from her first dancing - it is clear she returned for further dancing. Just that the tracks could not be used as potential evidence that the ward did not keep out fae as they were a) caused after the ward was broken (almost certainly) and b) caused by Eirlys (almost certainly), who was a hermetic magus rather than a fae (see note about Gryffud's status) (probably).--Corbonjnl 00:09, 2 October 2006 (UTC) : As a somewhat aside, is Grufydd technically Fae? He is human, with goblin blood as minor supernatural virtue. I am not sure on the rules on this point. I presume he is not magical - but I could be wrong on that as he possesses three other supernatural virtues. If we can catagorise him as Fae, but not magical and he claims that he has entered the area before the ward was broken, Mnemosyne can Frosty Breath of the Spoken Lie on him to discern if he is telling the truth, which could be another way of telling if the ward blocked Fae. However, this depends on what his actual status is. --Perikles 21:24, 1 October 2006 (UTC) ::I believe he is not technically fae (no might) (or magical - no might an no gift), but since he lives in a fae forest and has fae blood is likely to identify with them to some extent. Much like Eirlys (even if Eirlys was over the top, though the ott did fit with her backstory nicely). --Corbonjnl 00:09, 2 October 2006 (UTC) :: Grufydd isn't classed as fae, but rather a fae-realm aligned human. Frosty Breath works on him. He is clearly not a mundane human, or the ward would have stopped him, as it stopped the grogs. He has clearly interacted with the fae a lot, to the extent of visiting their court. --James 15:11, 4 October 2006 (UTC) :::If I may draw two points to question: 1) Gryffyd claims that he (and other fae) had visited within the ward before its destruction, but Longinus saw no evidence of prints other than theirs - correct? 2) The Chronicles indicate the Longinus made a start at circumnavigating the ward. Where are these claw marks in relation to the areas of the ward that were examined in the first visit? --Tim 14:03, 2 October 2006 (UTC) ::::1)As far as I am aware Longinus saw no prints inside the ward worthy of note. Any prints made by Eirlys dancing the first time would not have been 'of note' as their cause was evident. Longinus is not a woodsman however. 2)Since the trench is to the north, the break (first place they encountered the ward) is on the north west side of the ward and after crossing the ward Longinus encountered the pillar (southern of the two small circles first while heading as much as possible towards the middle of the warded area, Longinus clearly circled the ward counterclockwise to the south after splitting from Eirlys (then headed centrally). His later investigations were focused in the central areas and then he would have left to the north west again as that was the known route back out of the forest. The trench area was thus likely not approached at all in the first visit. --Corbonjnl 15:12, 2 October 2006 (UTC)